I'm aware they are archaic allegories of different idealised women types but what inherent traits lead to this quintessential distinction. In Helen and Penelope aswell as in Menelaus and Odysseus. Furthermore, was the consequence of the female behavior t

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File: 1745787049010.png(394.18 KB, 600x417, Penelope surprised by the ….png)

Why did Penelope remain faithful to Odysseus while Helen quickly betrayed Menelaus? Anonymous 04/27/25 (Sun) 20:50:49 No.174

I'm aware they are archaic allegories of different idealised women types but what inherent traits lead to this quintessential distinction. In Helen and Penelope aswell as in Menelaus and Odysseus.
Furthermore, was the consequence of the female behavior the responsibility of the respective man or woman?
In other words, would a hypothetical Penelope have betrayed an Menelaus archetype and a hypothetical Helen have stayed with an Odysseus archetype?

Anonymous 04/28/25 (Mon) 01:00:53 No.186

Is Helen not framed as a stand in for beauty, that is Aphrodite herself? A sort of avatar for desire. It's not just some cultural archetyping, I think this goes back to the basis of what is foundational to Greek metaphysics (the mere sensing and being we find in Parmenides and also in Aristotle) and probably Indo-European myth and metaphor.
Desire always moves on, it never stays, and Those-Who-Desire would follow it anywhere. That's probably the core of the tale. The collaborative nature which designed the Illias and Odyssey shouldn't be neglected there. The Illias and Odyssey were compiled to be different works. In a narrative sense a coupling in the most literal sense of one with the other would fail. What is desired is desired because of those who desire, what is lost is trying to be found. These tales are ancient and at the very root of Indo-European tales. It's probably that simple, while trying to deliver good entertainment by bards stitching hexameters together to make these tales.

To answer your question, and from what I think you're pretty close to the answer yourself, though Penelope would've stayed with Menelaos, he would have left, and Odysseus would not have journeyed home for Helen, for the desire or lust for beauty. He journeys home - for his home. The very grammar of our language has retained this.

Anonymous 04/28/25 (Mon) 08:10:56 No.198

File: 1745827856543.jpg(26.5 KB, 433x443, yhwh and his wife's penis.jpg)

The Odyssey is an epic for the women in the Audience. After Odysseus conquers the One Eyed Impulse by strangling it, he encounters woman after woman.

*Each woman is the same woman is the listening woman.*

So Penelope is faithful to Odysseus because she's 10-15 years older than him (Robert Graves _White Goddess), and also because she is every other woman.

It is the same fucking system as East Enders of Neighbours or Degrassi Junior high: the woman's abject status as a non-individual means she can fantasise every position of the woman as in Jane Austen.

To summarise: Greek Epic and Drama is chick fic. Real readers read nice straight stuff like YHWHism. File attached: YHWH and his wife's penis.